Democracy or Dictatorship?

The Corporate United States
The essence

The Corporate United States
The form

COMMENTS FROM GOOGLE PLUS

Jan 18, 2017

Mani Elliott
What’s wrong with democracy?

All Things Chinese
Democracy without centralization, for a group, it could mean inefficiency; for a country, it might lead to anarchy.

But this is still not the worst scenario. What’s truly nasty is a bunch of international dictators (or dictators-wanna-be) promoting unrestrained democracy.

larry Ng
Pl study the Socrates’ critic of democracy.

Mani Elliott
So you believe in a dictatorship like the one practiced in China? You believe in a small group of people having unrestricted power over a large number of people. Being able to do whatever they want without question.

larry Ng
Stupid westernized bias

All Things Chinese
This did not occur in China during the most time in history (except under Manchu’s rule) and doesn’t seem to be the case today. But this is definitely something that some people endeavour to achieve (unrestrained freedom for them to rule the world), yet these people are not from China (of course they have some Chinese hatchet men and hatchet women that’s for sure).

Mani Elliott
All dynasties in China were like this. Similarly, when the KMT ruled the mainland under Chiang Kaishek they were like this. China is like this now, under the communist party.

All Things Chinese
Most authentic Chinese dynasties in the recent 2,000 years were actually constitutional monarchies in effect. The emperors could not just do what they wanted to do. It was scholar-officials in various levels of government running the country.

When China was under the KMT, China was partially under foreign occupation and the government had no chance to dictate state affairs even if it wanted to.

The CCP government under Chairman Mao was widely supported by the grassroots Chinese people, the factory workers and the peasants who accounted for 80 to 90 per cent of the population — this reflects a true democracy. And it still is the case to a certain extent.

Yet, this is not an extreme democracy (anarchy, populism) but with centralization so the system still allows the jobs to be done efficiently. It is the middle way (and the sensible way) between anarchy and dictatorship.

However, there are some leaders from some nations irresponsibly promoting unrestrained democracy by lip service while practicing global dictatorship through drones and gunboats (aircraft carriers).

I trust you know what I’m talking about.

Mani Elliott
That isn’t true. Emperors from Tang to Ming could do whatever they want. The same applies to Qin and Han etc. In a constitutional monarchy, the ‘crown’ typically has no hard political power. They only have a social influence.

The KMT, similarly was widely supported by the Chinese people. Yes, China was under imperial rule and the KMT’s power was indeed limited but they still had a large amount of power and imperialist support.

The CCP government was widely supported, however, remember that there weren’t any other parties allowed. There were no other options or elections. The CCP did not allow any other parties. Mao Zedong also had supreme power. This is a dictatorship. Therefore, when Mao Zedong implemented the great leap forward failure and then 4 years later, the cultural revolution, the people had no opportunity to vote for any other parties that they thought would have done a better job. All other communist parties in China are subservient to the CCP and led by the CCP.

If every Chinese person was allowed to vote and if every Chinese person had at least one party, that isn’t communist and is pro-democracy, I think it would be very close or the pro-democracy party would win. The combined numbers of people from Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong, religious people and Falun Gong practitioners, political prisoners and pro-democracy people in the rest of China who know the truth that the CCP censors and hides would ensure that they make a statement.

All Things Chinese
Do you know why Ming Emperor Jiajing wanted to abdicate the throne? Because he didn’t have the power to bestow his late father a royal title of his choice.

Do you know why Ming Emperor Zhengde had to sneak out of the palace? Because he wasn’t allowed to schedule his own business trip to the south.

Let alone the decision for ocean expedition, the decision for war and peace…

Were they the sovereigns who could do whatever they wanted like the kings in Middle Ages Europe?

Obviously not.

I recommend you learn China’s Han, Tang and Song histories via original chronicles and Ming history written by Meng Sen, not those produced by European or US authors.

The same goes for KMT history. Ever since it was led by Chiang Kai-shek, it became a party for multinationals, for big businesses. They were supported by the US government and its allies but not by Chinese factory workers and peasants.

Chinese peasants supported land redistribution initiated by the CCP, which was why the PLA army grew so fast. (And that is why the current rural land amalgamation trend is a worry)

Since in the early 20th when peasants accounted for 80-90 percent of the Chinese population and when peasants enthusiastically stood by CPC, how can you say KMT was a government with popular support?

KMT has been plagued with factional battles, corruption scandals, and its alignment with big businesses and multinationals at the expense of grassroots battlers. Chiang Kai-shek’s wife even urged Americans to nuke her own people with different political opinions to her.

The worst thing I can see happening to mainland China today is CCP becomes more like KMT, which will spell its end.

For this, CCP should purge the rotten elements who behave more like KMTer than CCPer, representing not people but the multinational’s interest.

Regarding Mao Zedong. Clearly, Mao didn’t have a superpower, otherwise, he would not bypass the government and appeal directly to the grassroots people for a second revolution. Would any dictator want to have a revolution against his own government?

As for the voting system, at the moment, China does have one person one vote practiced at the grassroots level, such as in villages, as a way to gradually implement the system in a wider scope and higher level. Do you want to know what has happened in many villages? Corruption with money politics, just like what has happened in the US.

One-person one-vote has its merits and drawbacks, like all other political systems. There is no magic pill in this world. Each nation has its unique problems related to its history, culture, social and economic conditions. The worst human beings are those who try to dictate how others should live their life for their own advantage – it’s a typical slave owners’ attitude.

Talking about two political parties. Do you really think the US has two parties? Wake up to reality, please. The two parties in the US by and large represent the same establishment that controls the reserve bank which is privately owned through big banks on Wall Street.

Here is the 2017 Trust Baromoter by Edelman just published yesterday.

Chinese political system seems to work better than that of the US. Then why some people don’t urge America to reform its system but push China to do so? Should we be very suspicious of those people’s true motivations?

As for China’s ethnic policy, I agree, it has been steered in the wrong direction, but not for the reasons you stated. Quite opposite. It is the deceptive “political correctness” that has poisoned the US and Europe and that has granted various privileges (in education, job promotion, childbirth quote and burial options) to the minorities which creates a birthright-based hierarchical class system in China — this is a classic case of anti-democracy (minority suppresses majority), which is surely a hotbed for civil unrest and disintegration.

Jan 23, 2017

Mani Elliott
The histories I read come from Chinese sources.

However, unlike you, I prefer to read from a variety of sources and not only one source that first has to be approved by the CCP.

I’m pretty sure the Ming dynasty emperors had great power, considering that voyages to the west under Ming were authorized by the emperor. However, I’ll do further research into that.

The KMT government had popular support under Sun Yatsen, shortly after overthrowing Qing. That is what I said. They began losing support after WW1 and during the second Sino Japanese war. I know that.

I can say the same thing about the CCP. There are factions. The CCP is also deeply corrupt. Look how many people the anti-corruption campaign has prosecuted despite the fact that it’s simply a ploy for Xi Jinping to purge his opposers. Look at the corruption found in the families of CCP officials as shown in the Panama Papers. How do you think they were dealt with?

Mao Zedong encouraged Chinese people to reproduce rapidly during the cold war so that if America nuked and kill half of the population, there’ll still be half left. Does that sound like a respectable leader to you? That is why China implemented the one-child policy and then the two-child policy. Because the one-child policy failed and so will the two-child policy.

In China, if you have a different opinion(different from the government’s) and you express it publicly, you risk ‘disappearing’, being imprisoned or even killed. This is something that has been happening since the beginning of China. Under Qin, under Tang, under Ming, under Qing, under the KMT, under Mao Zedong and currently under the CCP.

Currently, the CCP is worse than the KMT. Because no other political parties are allowed unless they have ‘communist’ in their name. All approved parties are led by CCP members.

China doesn’t have democracy. Democracy isn’t a ‘one person voting system under the same political party’. Democracy is (at its most basic) appointing different people/parties based on who has won the popular(or most votes) vote.

Even this is idealistic and couldn’t work because of the nature of people, The CCP has historically killed its own people if they have a different idea for how a country should be run. They punish people for their religious beliefs and are corrupt and capitalistic to their core. This is one reason China has so many wealthy individuals. Millionaires and billionaires. Because China is capitalist, not communist.

The soviet union has tried to dictate how people live their lives. The CCP does the same. Both governments attempt to monitor the thoughts and conversations of their people. One major difference is that, in China, any technology company, Tencent, Huawei, ZTE, Yahoo, Apple, is expected to put back doors in their software to allow the government to monitor what their citizens are talking about.

What the US does has nothing to do with what other governments, including China, should do because they are not the arbiters of right and wrong. However, the US has two major parties. This is much better than the situation in China, in which the government has control of ALL institutions.

No, people do urge the US to reform its systems. America is a poor example of a democratic country because, in reality, the US isn’t a democratic country. US presidents are chosen by the electoral college, not the popular vote. Do you remember the definition of democracy that I gave earlier? The leader(s) of a country is decided by the majority. The popular vote. So far, it is the best system for electing leaders that have been widely implemented; far superior to dictatorship. However, it is not perfect. No one believes democracy is perfect. Similarly, can you list any successful country that’s communist or mostly communist? Capitalism isn’t perfect. However, it’s innately better than socialism.

All Things Chinese
I’m amazed by your logic.

First of all, the original Chinese chronicles were produced hundreds even thousands of years ago, how could they be approved by the CCP?

Secondly, do you know why the ocean voyage was stopped? And by who? Yes, you do need to do some basic research before becoming pretty sure of anything.

Of course, I have to agree with you that CCP is quite corrupt now, and even the anti-corruption campaign is to some extent rather corrupt itself when it serves as a tool for factional battles, such as in the Bo Xilai case with nearly all accusations being fabrications manufactured by Wen Jiabao clique, the central discipline committee, Beijing High Court and Jinan local court.

Your accusation of Mao Zedong’s effort to increase the Chinese population is so vicious and juvenile. All Chinese governments placed population growth as the top priority except in the recent thirty years.

Do you know there was a time the US was about to nuke China? And do you know even today there are US politicians and military personnel talking about nuking Shanghai and other coastal cities? Had China not quickly developed nuclear arsenals, Shanghai might already become the second Hiroshima.

When a mafia gang is at your doorstep and threatens to bomb your house unless you agree to be their slave, what you might say to them?

Are you indeed a person who is unable to read behind the lines? Come on, be an adult and try to understand the human language properly.

You said “In China, if you have a different opinion (different from the government’s) and you express it publicly, you risk ‘disappearing’, being imprisoned, or even killed. This is something that has been happening since the beginning of China.”

I wonder have you really “read some from Chinese sources”, or what those Chinese sources are? I would like to urge you to read the chronicles, the ORIGINAL documents, not the simple introductions or interpretations by some modern authors, such as Manchu descendant Yuan so and so.

China traditionally had a group of court officials whose duties were nothing else but to give criticism. Do you know that?

Gave you one example. One day the second Ming Emperor Jianwen was quite sick so he was later to attend the daily morning cabinet meeting. Guess what happened? He received criticism from one such official and consequently, he openly apologized to the public.

Do you know what “骗庭杖” means? That means Ming high officials were so proud of being punished by the emperor for insisting their opinions differ from the monarch’s.

Such a phenomenon was not an isolated incident but throughout Chinese history, especially after Confucianism became a state-sponsored ideology. One of Confucius’ most important statements is “民为贵社稷次之君为轻” — since you can read Chinese, please tell me what that means.

As for today, although the CCP government is plagued with corruption lately, its support among its people is still the highest in the world. Have you followed the link in my comment and viewed the research figures? If you haven’t yet, do so, please.

Talking about corruption. In fact, all politicians who receive political donations can be considered corrupt by Chinese standards. When somebody is elected with the help of political donations, he or she is expected to return the favour. Dare you to say this is not corruption?

I’ve noticed you like to jump from one extreme to another. If a country is not a “democracy” it must be a “dictatorship”.

And your understanding of democracy is so superficial. If a country doesn’t have TWO parties, it must be a dictatorship.

China is certainly not a country of “democracy” as the term is defined by the Western establishment. Such democracy (without conditions without restraint without centralization) never exists.

PRC was built under a system that is called Democracy with Centralisation (democratic centralism).

You think the Chinese never knew about the election? Let me tell you, China had an election system 2,000 years ago, with government officials recommended by the public according to their merits and contributions to the community. But such a system was easy to be manipulated, so the scholar examination (public servant selection system) was invented. For the next thousand years, both systems existed in Chinese society until eventually, the examination became mainstream.

Chinese government punishes people for their religious beliefs? Can you name which religion has been prosecuted? Or you just mean that CIA-funded cult movement headed by that qigong swindler? (Now I start to have serious doubt over your background and identity.)

By the way, I wish you know the real difference between genuine socialism and socialism by name. I do find you have a tendency to take face values only.

As to online surveillance, what is your evidence to back up your backdoor claim? You also think too highly of the capability of the Chinese government – it’s a laughable notion that they can monitor everyone’s thoughts and words. Finally, just don’t tell me you never heard the names of Snowden, Manning and Assange.

Jun 11, 2017

Mani Elliott
All modern books compiling and investigating Chinese history and that is produced in China have to be approved by the CCP. That’s what I mean. And currently, one of my primary sources of information about Chinese history is from a Chinese source that doesn’t try to appear even slightly neutral. I read from a variety of sources.

Can you provide any evidence or citations that America intended to bomb Shanghai? Or anywhere in China? Your comparisons are very flawed. Japan was bombed because they refused to stop their imperialism and atrocities in Asia. They were warned before they were bombed. Secondly, Japan attacked America first. America retaliated.

You are obviously thoroughly convinced by the propaganda. You sound like a North Korean who believes that America actively wants to bomb N Korea.

What Mao Zedong did was manipulate the population which has had a very negative effect on China today. If he was sensible, he would realize that populations don’t win wars. Strategy and resourcefulness are what wins wars. His manipulation of the population was unethical.

I don’t need to read original documents to know that if you stood against Qin or were separatist, you would have very likely been executed. This is a characteristic of most ancient states. It was the same thing with most, if not all other dynasties. They executed separatists and opposers. Qin, Han, Ming, Qing. And most dynasties in between that ruled China. The ROC had also become like this at the point. This is why the CCP had to have their first meeting in secret and why they betrayed the Northern Expedition.

I never said I can read Chinese. I am learning Chinese but I’ve had to take a break to focus on my studies. So I can only partially understand what is written. Not being able to read Chinese doesn’t lend any more weight to your arguments or takes away any weight from mine.

Having the support of people you have brainwashed isn’t something to be proud of. Secondly, I’m sure that whatever research you’ve read claiming that the CCP has the most support from its people compared to other governments has come straight from China, likely the CCP’s own state-run propaganda.

I never said that capitalism is free of corruption. I said that the problem with communism is that it falls apart quickly because of human nature. Meanwhile, capitalism is able to function through the flaws of humans.

Can you provide any evidence that Falun Gong is funded by the CIA?

I also mentioned other faiths. Nice of you to ignore them. Christian churches have been demolished. Jehovah’s Witnesses and other religious faiths are also banned, despite the Chinese constitution giving, ‘freedom of religion’.

As long as the CCP is in power, the constitution has no weight.

All Things Chinese
How many times do I have to tell you that the books I recommended to you are the ones written and published hundreds even thousands of years ago and you can find them outside mainland China? What’s the point of you repeating CCP’s approval? I feel you do have problems understanding human language.

As for some American politicians and military personnel’s discussions over the possibility of bombing Chinese coastal cities, they are plenty online in both languages. I’ve got enough of being your secretary. Do your own research (including CIA’s indirect funding program related to that repulsive cult Falungong. Here is a keyword: democracy endowment).

In fact, bombing is more than just a discussion in words.

Let me say this again, for the last time, Mao Zedong’s statement was a response to a war threat. If you are sensible, you wouldn’t arrogantly think he believed China could win a war without strategy and resources. Please don’t put your own silly idea into a great military strategist’s mind.

Regarding freedom of religion, do you know how many churches and mosques have been built in China in recent decades? Even in small towns and villages? In fact, the Chinese government is dangerously facilitating some imported aggressive religious practices which are rather detrimental to Chinese society.

You can’t be bothered to read the original documents, can’t be bothered to do your own research, and can’t be bothered to back up your claims with evidence or figures but just throw your conclusions and attacks around to vent your hatred for Chinese civilization in general and Chinese government in particular, while accusing anyone who disagrees with your view as being brainwashed. There is absolutely no problem with me if you prefer to remain in darkness and enjoy your ignorance.

COMMENTS FROM TWITTER

October 11, 2020

p-brane
Where’s Handsome Bo?

All Things Chinese
Bo’s name will shine in history, while those who framed him and prosecuted him would be remembered forever as wretched clowns.

History will also remember Wen Jiabao (a man behind the smear campaign against Bo) who claimed that to save America is to save China and spent $586 billion in the stimulus package to help the US out of the 2008 crisis, yet now resulted in China being accused of getting America deep in debt.

p-brane
I remember that Peili Zhang was crazy about blood diamonds and burmese jade 😉

Is Guagua still in the US?

All Things Chinese
He must be, my guess. I don’t personally know Bo and his family. Some of my friends are his fans and from them I learned a lot about him. But I’m just interested in his fascinating practice in Chongqing that in a way has achieved both economic efficiency and social fairness.

From Elite Democracy to Global Dictatorship

Rulers and Ruled in the US Empire (2007)

James Petras

Today, the richest two percent of adults own more than half the world‟s wealth, while according to Times writer, David Brown, the richest tenth own 85 percent of the world‟s assets.

Within this small elite, a fraction embedded in financial capital owns and controls the bulk of the world‟s assets and organizes and facilitates further concentration of conglomerates.

Against Empire

Michael Parenti

“U.S. leaders profess a dedication to democracy. Yet over the past five decades, democratically elected reformist governments in Guatemala, Guyana, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Syria, Indonesia (under Sukarno), Greece, Argentina, Bolivia, Haiti, and numerous other nations were overthrown by pro-capitalist militaries that were funded and aided by the U.S. national security state.

The U.S. national security state has participated in covert actions or proxy mercenary wars against revolutionary governments in Cuba, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Portugal, Nicaragua, Cambodia, East Timor, Western Sahara, and elsewhere, usually with dreadful devastation and loss of life for the indigenous populations. Hostile actions also have been directed against reformist governments in Egypt, Lebanon, Peru, Iran, Syria, Zaire, Jamaica, South Yemen, the Fiji Islands, and elsewhere.

Since World War II, U.S. forces have directly invaded or launched aerial attacks against Vietnam, the Dominican Republic, North Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Libya, Iraq, and Somalia, sowing varying degrees of death and destruction.

War and the Economic Crisis (2012)

Michel Chossudovsky and Andrew Gavin Marshall

Historically, warfare has been an instrument of economic conquest.

The Pentagon is not only in liaison with the State Department, it also has informal ties to Wall Street, the Texas oil giants, not to mention the IMF and World Bank, which have played a key role in the process of destabilizing national economies.

From the Truman Doctrine formulated in the late 1940s by George Kennan to the (current administration), there has been a constant thread: the neo-cons have described it as “The Long War”, a military blueprint for global economic and political domination, a “war without borders”.

U.S. foreign policy supports the expansion of U.S. corporate capital.

The economic objectives are acknowledged but rarely highlighted as a justification for waging war. It builds a consensus that America is being attacked by terrorists. It obfuscates what is tantamount to a profit-driven military agenda which directly serves the interests of Wall Street, the oil giants, and the U.S. military-industrial complex.

The Neo-Cons‟ Project for a New American Century (PNAC), formulated in 2000, was the culmination of a broad military and strategic design geared toward establishing U.S. military hegemony and global economic domination, as initially formulated under the “Truman Doctrine” at the outset of the Cold War.

The PNAC is a neo-conservative think tank linked to the Defense-Intelligence
establishment, the Republican Party and the powerful Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) which plays a behind-the-scenes role in the formulation of U.S. Foreign Policy. The PNAC document posits the need to wage major, simultaneous theater wars in different regions of the world.

Meanwhile, as the Western war economy flourishes, the relocation of the production of
civilian manufactured goods in Third World countries has increased at a dramatic pace. The global economy is characterized by a bi-polar relationship. The rich Western countries produce advanced weapons systems, whereas poor countries produce manufactured consumer goods. In a twisted logic, the military capabilities of the U.S. and its NATO allies are used to threaten and/or wage war on the developing countries, which supply Western markets with large amounts of consumer goods produced in cheap labor assembly plants.